Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: I'm Afshin Ratansi and this is New Order. We're broadcasting globally, including to nearly 1 1/2 billion on RT India. On this program, we look at how India and the wider Global south are navigating a rapidly shifting order, one now being reshaped by conflict in West Asia, disruption to global trade routes, and the growing uncertainty around energy security.
Thousands have been killed and more than a million displaced by the Trump Netanyahu war in Iran. But billions have been immiserated by the ensuing impact on the Strait of Hormuz. Human life on Earth pivots on West Asia's critical global energy artery. And despite Trump's sudden realization about how world trade functions, his desperate attempts to reopen the strait that he de facto shut, hundreds of vessels have been trapped with tens of thousands of merchant seamen stranded from LNG carriers to all the products in the petrochemical chain. Nations all around the world have as supply cuts pump up prices for fuel, food and medicine for Global south brics countries like India. Determinant reliance on Gulf energy imports means the war in Iran is not a distant conflict. It is a direct challenge to economic stability, energy access and strategic positioning in a multipolar world. Against this backdrop, India's External Affairs Minister Jaishankar is currently here in the uae, emphasizing the urgency New Delhi feels as it navigates through a war in a region vital to its interests. Later in the show New Order, Zahra Khan will bring your questions to the table and we'll answer as many as we can. Amidst the carnage, with so many lives lost on land, the Trump Netanyahu war is also killed at sea. And not just the 87 Trump killed on Iran's Irish Dina near Sri Lanka. A week after that atrocity, off the coast of Basra in Iraq, an oil tanker, Safe C Vishnu, was attacked during a routine transfer. The vessel was carrying around 50,000 tons of oil when it was struck in a coordinated assault, killing one crew member.
[00:02:05] Speaker B: Allah.
Allah.
[00:02:26] Speaker A: The ship belongs to Svanchan, chairman of Safe Sea Group, whose work across global shipping includes operations with the United Nations. The Indian government awarded him the Eminent Overseas Maritime Personality Award, and he joins me now from Piscataway, New Jersey. Thank you so much, Dr. Antran, for joining us. I should say that Prime Minister Modi personally gave you the Shipping Pravasi Award at the Maritime Summit in India as well. But first of all, our condolences, of course, from new audit to the family of the chief engineer, Dhiunandan Singh from Mumbai, originally from Bihar.
Let's just start on the 11th of March it was struck in Iraqi waters. What exactly happened and what was it carrying and what exactly happened?
[00:03:15] Speaker B: Thank you very much, Afshin. Before that, let me sort of correct here. It is not the Prime Minister who gave me the award. It has been given by the government of India.
But yes, I was the first one to get that award.
[00:03:32] Speaker A: There's so many awards, doctor and fan I was looking at all.
[00:03:35] Speaker B: But anyway, thank you, thank you. But coming to this particular incident, as I always stated that this is not an isolated incident as such. It is a well calculated calibrated attack.
It, it's quite different than the attacks that has happened in the region that we have seen for the last couple of weeks.
All those attacks have happened through drone, missile, etc. But this was a very well calibrated attack. It has attacked.
It was attacked in the territorial waters of Iraq, you know, within the vicinity of the terminal.
And what has surprised us about this attack after doing the due diligence on this thing is that before one day before the attack there was a speedboat that was, that had definitely taken couple of rounds probably to map the attack.
And it was attacked at a very vulnerable time, midnight. And she was supposed to complete the operation in just next couple of hours.
And it attacked in a way through an unmanned vessel with explosives on board.
The boat that was controlling this unmanned vessel was absolutely just miles away from our ships. So all this attack was definitely happened inside the territorial waters of Iraq.
Again, there are coast guards, there are vigilance. Definitely that is happening 24 7, especially during the time of the war. We have not seen any sort of an action or report thereafter from Iraqis that how did they allow this attack to happen inside their territory? We have not seen that.
So that's one of the reason we have requested the international bodies, including United Nation, Guardian of the Maritime Industry, IMO to come forward and do the investigation on this thing. They cannot be quite.
You think whatever has happened, sorry, do
[00:06:01] Speaker A: you think it was targeted because I mean your company supplies services to the un, the World Food Program, US Government. Do you think there was an element of targeting because it was associated with any perceived idea of the United States government involved, let alone it being a US Company?
[00:06:21] Speaker B: No, I don't see, you know, element of whether, whether we are been been associated with United Nations. It's more to do with an to with an US Company as such, because otherwise if they wanted a less casualty, they could have attacked the ship when she was inside the terminal for good about nine to 10 days.
Iranian could have Attacked that because they knew that attacking inside the terminal means less casualties and they have planned it very, very well.
There could be only one reason or there is only one reason because the ultimate beneficial owners happens to be US National. That's it.
We do not see anything more than that. But yes, it is a very calculated and definitely there has been some assistance from the host country. We could see that very, very, very directly.
Otherwise how could.
[00:07:19] Speaker A: There are of course close alliances between Iran and Iraq. I mean what did you make of Iran's claim that the vessel ignored IRGC Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps warnings, failed to comply with orders.
[00:07:34] Speaker B: What do you fail to comply the orders? The vessel was inside the Iraq loading for a good 10 days terminal. She came out and she was completing the operation. She was not sailing. She was, she was absolutely anchored there.
She was absolutely anchored there. What does that mean that she has ignored and, and you send a missile or rather you send explosive on to a unmanned, unmanned boat and, and there's another boat waiting just about, you know, in, in the vicinity chanting Allah Akbar.
That needs to be also be checked, you know, whether it is those are Iranians or those are different nationalities.
[00:08:15] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean I should just ask
[00:08:17] Speaker B: are they all safe?
[00:08:18] Speaker A: I mean there are 15 Indian and 12 Filipino remaining crew. Are they all safe now?
[00:08:25] Speaker B: They all are safe and luckily, luckily, I don't know this attack. They definitely wanted all 28 crew members on board on safely. Vishnu should be, you know they wanted 100% casualty on the ship. They wanted 100% this, this 28 crew to be baked because in STS operation it's not an easy task to jump from the ship or to lower the, lower the, you know, lifeboat as such. But they managed it, they managed it.
[00:09:05] Speaker A: How many ships do you now have? I mean I'm speaking to you from Dubai, not very far from the coast here. Of course there are hundreds of vessels from so many different companies and countries that are just jammed into the, just off the coast of the uae. How many do you have and what's the situation right now as regards ships stranded? How many thousands of seamen are we talking about?
[00:09:33] Speaker B: No, we have additional one ship definitely in the region got caught in the state of Harmut.
But what we definitely know that good, about 800 plus ships got stuck in the state of Harmud.
And if you do the math, if you even take 20, just about 20 crew on each ship, then you have what, 16,000 crew definitely got trapped. And out of 16,000 I can say for surely you know just about, if not more than 50% at least 50% are Indian seafarers. At least 15, you know, 8,000 are definitely Indian seafarers. My question to IMO here is AFRIN, is that who is the guardian of the maritime industry as such is imo is this crew today being treated as the prisoner of war under what convention?
Who is coming forward to even think of those? I heard very recently where Israelis are saying that oh please don't take a public transport transportation in Iran because there can be potential sort of attack. So they don't want it to kill the civilians as such. But here you have more than 16,000 civilians in Middle of the ocean and nobody's talking about them.
You have un.
We have a UN body called International Military Organization who's supposed to be taking care of the security of the crew, of the oil pollution and both, both are in, in, in. You know, we are exposed in both ways, whether it's a crew, whether it's, whether there is a pollution. But we invite the one noise.
[00:11:26] Speaker A: We invite people from the International Maritime Organization in London on, on new order.
[00:11:31] Speaker B: Of course.
[00:11:31] Speaker A: But I suppose I should ask, I mean it has to be said many, many civilians of course have been killed in Iran. Thousands have been killed in a. Tell me because you know about this, what conditions must be like then? The war is more than 40 days. Even though there was a ceasefire and talks in Pakistan and all the rest of it. What are conditions like for merchant seamen stranded on a tanker like your one.
[00:12:01] Speaker B: Steve, my fear factor is that look, please understand the trauma, please understand the family trauma.
Today they see a missile going up and down. Yes, there has been a ceasefire but we still hear element of attacks here and there.
Now the more fear factor for moving forward is also the supply of food.
Let's not forget that Middle east imports large, you know, percentage of the food are imported today you have choked the ocean, you have definitely got limited sky open.
So in coming days if there is no clarity on, even on the peace deal etc, I'm sure this crew member, not only the crew member, rest of the people living there will run short of food, will run short of water.
We are very sure about that.
[00:13:08] Speaker A: Why do you think there's been no action from Antonio Guterres at the UN secretariat level even.
[00:13:17] Speaker B: See that is what we need to ask. You know, we have a lot of questions for imo, as I said, I referred them to. It's not like a complaint but they are the guardian, you know of the maritime industry.
Did they alert us and say that look, you know, please vacate this region, there will be a potential attack. They have not elected us.
We could have vacated this region because now we are playing with the life of the people of more than 16,000 crew members and nobody, not even one nation has come forward and spoken for them. Not even one today. Whatever is happening, whether it's the West, east, north, whatever it is, I think Global south are the most affected one at the moment.
We have crew members because they are today like, like, like a, like a military personnel without boots because they have been taken as a prisoner of war. As I mentioned to you.
Why nobody's coming forward. Where are the United. Why there are so many members in IMO. There's about 179 countries are the members of IMO. Even Iran is a member of IMO. Can't they speak to Iran and say that look, you know, you please let the ship go. You are part of, of the fertility or we will ensure that though Iranian flag in future will ban you for for, for life or should be IMO saying that okay with all those things. Look, we should have our own navy to safeguard our, our, our such is the oxygen of the world.
[00:14:48] Speaker A: We'll continue this after the break. Stay with us.
You're watching New Order and we're speaking to Dr. Anshan about the growing crisis in global shipping and its impact on India and the Global South. Dr. Anshan, you were very eloquently telling us about the way that many global shipp and merchant seamen must feel abandoned by international authorities right now.
You did say that perhaps the Global south, perhaps BRICS has a role here in solving these problems ongoing.
Just explain to us because there has been reports of the United States bombing Bandar Abbas.
What is the significance of Chabahar port and the north south international transport corridor in the New order that is approaching and perhaps why the Bandar Abbas in Iran was targeted as some strategists in Washington see it as a threat to US Hegemony.
[00:16:01] Speaker B: Yes, Bandar Abbas has been quite a big port there.
Definitely a commercial port especially for the container ships as such. More than anything else, US or Israelis, they have attacked not only that Bandarabas port, there has been attack on on the Kurg island which which happens to be quite an important port for the energy export.
Now Chabar port will definitely play an important role but there is ambiguity towards that.
India was working on developing the Chabar port.
Given the recent whatever the political issue, I don't want to make a political statement as such. There has been a slowdown on the development of Chabar port.
So whether that will be reactivated by India. That needs to be seen just perhaps
[00:17:00] Speaker A: for people who don't know about it around the world. I mean Chabar Port and the development would be good for India. Presumably it's. It could has great potential for expansion of the economy of India and economies all around the region.
[00:17:18] Speaker B: It is not limited to India as such. You know, please understand that that entire region is important especially for Global south because good.
I can say that 85% of the export from that region is scattered to Global South.
So it's not India will benefit out of that. It's not only the India that will benefit. Even the entire Global south will benefit out of this.
So that is very interesting. And Iran has been under embargo sanction for decades now.
So yes, India has taken the initiative to develop that port and they have achieved considerable success in that and they wanted to move forward on that.
However, in the recent past we have seen that there had been a slowdown for a reason known to the people.
But we feel that India should re look into activating that port and to bring the sanity asset that could be part of one of the peace talk as such.
And as far as BRICS is concerned, BRICS has become a very quite strong body as such.
But well, I believe what I know is that the next brick meeting is sometime in couple of months. You know, so they may play a very important role to bring the sanity in this region. I think Global south should stand up to this and find a sanity. Yes, there has been a talk that Prime Minister of India is the person or the only person who can maybe bring bring peace to this region.
But we hear that that has not happened. Something else has happened. But again the Israelis has said they don't want to accept Pakistani as, as a mediator.
So it looks like, you know, they may have to. The world have. May have to go back to India to Prime Minister Modi. Whether you'll accept, not accept that needs to be seen. But for the sanity in the world, probably he may have to look at that positively and come forward for the peace.
[00:19:30] Speaker A: I mean looking more long term. I mean hopefully this terrible catastrophic war will eventually be over.
How does it affect shipping specifically? And what would you like to be talked about at the Delhi summit? India of course is the presidency, holds the presidency. The chair of BRICS this year.
How could it reform practices and authorities which are obviously failing under the IMO. Arguably as you said in the part 1. How could BRICS have a role in improving and making it more efficient? The world shipping industry?
[00:20:10] Speaker B: I think yes we have to give more teeth to IMO in the sense that, you know, they should, they should take it up very strongly with the United nations in this case. We could see that technically, you know, the, the world shipping has been choked by, by blocking state of Hormuz.
And IMO had a very much big role to play here because.
No, no state can be blocked by any nation.
There is a freedom of navigation as such.
[00:20:47] Speaker A: Well, I should.
Is there freedom of navigation? There isn't freedom of navigation in the Strait of Hormuz, obviously, because Iran never ratified the 1982 UN agreement on that. And you have to pass through Iranian water and Omani water to travel through the Strait of Hormuz. It doesn't apply to the Strait of Hormuz. It's like the toll you pay to the Palomar Canal or the Suez Canal.
[00:21:12] Speaker B: No, no, it's quite different. If you look at the US Convention law of deceit, you know, it does say that.
[00:21:18] Speaker A: Yeah, but that was not, that was never verified. Yeah, that was never ratified by Iran.
[00:21:24] Speaker B: But, but if you even look at. No, if, even if you look at what you call traffic separation scheme, TSS by IMO or state of Hormuz, if it is controlled by the Iranians, if it is controlled by the Omanis, why does IMO step in and make a, make a regulation called TSS instead of Hormuz?
[00:21:45] Speaker A: Because they have no power over that strait because of the 12 mile maritime control, territorial control of the Iranian government and the Omani government.
What did you think when Trump started talking about him wanting to get in on the action and taking the toll money?
[00:22:06] Speaker B: No, see, I don't think that is setting a good example. You know, first of all, imo, if IMO had no role to play and it's only the Iranians and Omanis had the role to play, why did they allow IMO to come in and to implement a scheme called tss?
Why did they allow that?
That means definitely it is international waters.
It's a straightforward.
[00:22:38] Speaker A: Yeah, but some thought that was satisfying. Global insurers and reinsurers, that's why they got the TSS in. But before we get too technical about that, give us the insurance perspective over this. I mean, I think you are a president of a PNI club over there in the United States.
Do you think BRICS could create some insurance scheme? And how important has been. It hasn't arguably been Iran that has closed the strait anyway in the first couple of weeks, Was it the people that really closed the strait? If Hormuz was Lloyds of London and Swiss and Munich re, don't you think? I mean, what's your opinion?
[00:23:19] Speaker B: Yeah, Lloyds is the one who definitely defines the war risk or the potential war risk area as such. And they have implemented the additional war risk premium message today.
There is a difficulty, especially for the owners like us who are based out of United States or most part of the west, to get even an insurance cover, which means our vessels are exposed, our crew are exposed as such. And even if you get the insurance cover, you may get it at a cost which is absolutely difficult to sort of afford.
Now today, what we are in position that okay, we do get an insurance cover, but if you want to pass, if you want to cross the state of Hormuz, there's a condition late. And what is the condition? The condition is that you should take an approval or you should have an approval from Iran.
Now, if lawyers is saying that or if underwriters are saying that that you should an approval from Iran does it does mean whether it mean that the sanction has been lifted, we can take an approval from them.
And who is getting the approval? Which board is getting the approval?
[00:24:40] Speaker A: Dr. Anchan, where do we go and
[00:24:42] Speaker B: approach and send them the email that sir, please give me the approval, Mr. Iran, give me the approval.
[00:24:48] Speaker A: I, I need the insurance. I know the insurers were working secretly for Iran. Dr. Anchan, our condolences from our team to the family of Dinand and sing again, thank you so much for being on the order.
Thank you.
Now I'm joined by new order Zahra Khan to answer some of your questions. Zahra Passionate, please. From the shipping magnate Dr. Anshan there, I should just say the International Maritime Organization, since he referenced it in the past few days, said it's actively addressing maritime security in the Strait of Hormuz and condemns attacks on shipping and is pushing for a coordinated international action to prevent disasters. For what that's worth, I mean, I'm
[00:25:31] Speaker C: sure for the 20,000, over 20,000 seafarers that are stuck in the strait right now, it is.
[00:25:36] Speaker A: We don't even know how many.
[00:25:37] Speaker C: But let's get into some of the audience questions, questions that you've not even heard before.
[00:25:41] Speaker A: No, no warning.
[00:25:43] Speaker C: The queen bee from Georgia and the US is asking where do you think Turkey will land in all of it now that they're seemingly starting to reshape the political spectrum of West Asia.
[00:25:52] Speaker A: Turkey is erdogan curiously quiet throughout the terrible war that, as we keep saying, has killed thousands of people. Maybe he was worry about Trump's meeting with Mark Rutter because Turkey of course is a NATO member and he might not even had an alliance with the United States by the end of this week. By the end of the month, Inclink Air base which was it being used at all for any of the bombing of Tehran? We don't really know. And we've got to wonder whether Erdogan realizes that he has to have close relations historically they go for thousands of years with Persia or Iran, a conference in Tehran between maybe it's on the
[00:26:31] Speaker C: card leaders the next question is by guerrilla radio who's asking why do China and Russia support the WTO and other mechanisms of Western hegemony?
[00:26:40] Speaker A: I don't know why Beijing and Moscow accept WTO rulings rules at all given the United States and its allies proxies completely sanction countries all around the global south every day and Trump uses tariffs like a weapon which is completely in contravention of wto. Rul what is the point of the World Trade Organization if it's supposed to codify equal tariffs or tariffs as judged different meetings and jamborees that it has? I remember the Seattle WTO meeting when there was global dissent about the wto. Perhaps it's time for Beijing and Moscow to come down firmly and leave the WTO once and for all.
[00:27:20] Speaker C: And I feel like this is a question we get nearly every week. Why aren't brics playing a central role in peacemaking? And this is from Barracuda who's asking how is instead Pakistan a non BRICS member playing an active role in the peacemaking process?
[00:27:33] Speaker A: Ah, well, we need the Indian government on for that. Hopefully they'll come on New Order in the coming weeks and tell us all about their role, perhaps behind the scenes, of course, India being the chair of brics. But clearly whatever happens in this war, it will affect the BRICS nations, perhaps even disproportionately given the millions billions affected by the high prices that Dr. Anshun was implying just earlier on.
[00:27:59] Speaker C: Thank you for your answers, Afshin. I'm sure the questions from the audience will keep coming in. We'll continue next week.
[00:28:03] Speaker A: Thanks, Zar.
And that's it from me, Afshin Ratansi on New Order. Remember to follow us on all our social media channels. And here is a question for you. Will the rising cost of living because of the Trump Netanyahu war in Iran cause political chaos around the world? Let us know your thoughts on XewauerTV. Join us every Sunday as we follow the forces reshaping the world in this new order.
[00:28:25] Speaker B: Sam.
